Ah, so just about riding styles... and the bike liking it? Seems simple enough an idea... still have no idea how to apply that to some way of me understanding it... guess I need to ride a bike... or be a gp rider...

Perhaps the extra use of the rear brake sets the bike up better for it's acceleration after braking? And means that he can brake later... Marco may notbe getting the speeds because he doesn't know how to rein the bike in for the corner...

The use of the rear brake would also help explain the slides of KC's lately... that the whole bike is being slowed, not just the front... much safer way to slide I'd imagine, rather than just letting the rear slide out because it has more acceleration in it than the front. The front would risk locking, woudln't it because the balance would be off kilter.

Please, please, rummage for the article! We're onto a solution here! Should we tell Marco before it's too late?

LOL tell marco... good idea... bet no one did yet

hm.. was not to big an article..
won't learn much of it...

Oh, all right, don't worry then! If you've passed on the guts of it!

See, we're being very clever by pooling all the bits of info we have...

Anyone see the film "Lorenzo's Oil"? As the father of Lorenzo said... all the researchers are working in their own little world, oblivious to each other and each other's breakthroughs.

The same with solving the great ducati mystery! We were all puzzled at teh start of the season with Marco's below, below, wayyy below average performance on the ducati after we all predicted fine things for him last year. We knew he was a good rider, knew he had talent and ability (cb_46 put forth a good argument, though, last year about his consistency being an issue, though) and waited... and, latest result? LAST.

We all know KC is a good rider, detirmined, steely, etc, but we aren't blind... we know it's not down to pure talent and racing smarts... and still we're yet to see him come through the skirmishes that will make us think how talented and smart he is... two jousts with VR at Catalunya don't make a rider talented and full of smarts... gotta be seen race in, race out in skirmishes, battling for every thousandth of a second...

So we've needed to get to the bottom of the ducati mystery. Why KC so good, everyone else so bad....

Getting there!

I found it..
I'll post when I translated


EDIT:

here we go:

Mysterys about Stoners brakepats

The hoff discloses a secret: kc stoner is burning his brakepats non stop

All the world is wondering why only kc of all the ducati riders gets along with the unbelievable force of the GP8.
The hoff:
„kc is controling the bike all the time with the rearbrake“ says the last years ducati rider.
„when brakin for a corner and even - much more important for the desmocedici - when accelerating and during the change of direction.
With size of shoe 41 (no idea what that is in england etc, sorry, but I’d say quite smale for a man) kc keeps total controle of the rearbrake even under total bank during right hand corners “

„I see the biggest advantege of kcs ridingstile while changing direction in chicanes and under acceleration. He is bringing up to 50 bar to the brakelever to stabilise the bike in the important moments. That makes the handling of the duc better and more calm in chicanes, he doesn’t have to rely on his wrist better said the characteristic of the engine.

„one could ask melandri if he ever thinks at the rearbrake at the apex of a corner or under acceleration. I know the answer, it is NO!“

reading the data in 2007 I could also see how kc at times in the brakinzone first used the rearbrake and than added the frontbrake. That allowes him to use a soft (?) setup of the front fork. that furthermore is good for the cornerspeed.“

„the problem is a rider can’t change his riding stile during a season. Kc is doing instinctiv everyting right for the duc, thanx to his background, mele does the contrary.
As far as I know he uses the rearbrake near to never if not never, that is why he needs 100% feeling for the fronttire and to have that he needs to have the engine tame in his hands!"

"To sum it up: Kc is balancing the brutal responding behaviour and the resulting chassisproblems with the rearbrake. If he once can’t do it u can see how the whole bike is shakin.... all the other times only all the other ducs are shakin.“

Add: in dirttrackin where kc comes form... there is no frontbrake...

Cor thanks for that. Now I see why the Ducati's are thinking of signing Hayden now....he's another obsessive rear break user isn't he.

SuperBikePlanet.com Interview: Ducati MotoGP Team Manager Livio Suppoby dean adams and susan haasThursday, June 19, 2008
Multi-time (AMA) F1 champion Mike Baldwin used to say that for every good day in racing you'll later be accosted by three or more bad ones. Ducati's MotoGP team enjoyed an unprecedented season in 2007 with Casey Stoner dominating the series and winning the title. By the end of the season Ducati had signed another young and strong rider, Marco Melandri and they were readying for a repeat in 2008.
Then the Baldwin Rule came into play. Casey Stoner has only won a single race this season and his new teammate, the rider Ducati had been pining for since 2003, Melandri, started slow and actually with one exception has only gotten slower. It's been difficult times for Ducati and their Team Manager, Livio Suppo. I had a chance to talk to Suppo this week and ask him about the 2008 season, Marco Melandri and the rumors concerning Sete Gibernau and Nicky Hayden joining the Ducati MotoGP team.

Q 2007 was a dream season for Ducati's MotoGP team, winning races, winning the title. That kind of performance can be difficult to back up, simply because the season prior was so wonderful. so nearly perfect.


A Last season was so good, now seems to be a difficult season. But I think if we think about only Casey, the situation is not that bad at all. He has been a little bit down on luck. Without bad luck, he would be probably 20, 25 points from Valentino. So still open. In racing, it's like this. You can have an excellent week everything goes perfectly, and another one in which you have some problem. So far we cannot complain about anything with the situation with Casey.
Of course, on the other side, that is my big thought. Apart from China, Marco has been struggling with the bike since the beginning, and it's very difficult to understand why.

Q Marco came to the team with really high hopes because he was jumping on a motorcycle that's fully capable of winning. I was surprised when he stalled.


A I think everybody was surprised, Marco first of all. The problem is to understand how to help him. Because now is almost eight months that he's riding our bike, and he really never find a good feeling, apart from China where he did a very good job. So it is very difficult to understand why. It is a question of just a lot of expectation, also from his side, and then if the expectation doesn't match with the result, there's a kind of frustration, and then it becomes difficult to do anything. Anyway, it's not easy, for sure, for him.


Q With China being the good result, it's looking less likely that he's going to be able to extract himself from this rut.


A That is what's strange, that once you get a result like that, you expect that you can keep that level and then improve. Unfortunately, after China, at Le Mans he went back to a very difficult moment, and at the moment he doesn't look too comfortable on the bike.


Q Then you've got Gibernau testing the Ducati MotoGP bike, as well. Can you talk about that a little?


A Today we had the first day. There was some rain in the afternoon, so Sete did only four (sessions) this morning and one (session) this afternoon. Of course it's been more than one year that he is not riding a bike, so you cannot expect to see him as fast as a rider that is in activity. But I spoke with him, he's very happy, and the feeling is back again. He told me it looks like this almost two years didn't exist. He spent almost all his life riding a bike, and now he's very happy to be again on a bike. We have two more days testing, and we will see.


Q When he rode for Ducati, his time on your bike was marred by injuries and he was dragged down by that.


A I think that the 2006 season for Sete was really, really unlucky, because since the beginning when he had trouble with the electronic gear shift in Jerez, I think this was a key point of his season, because coming from Honda he broke the engine in the last race in Valencia in 2005, and then first race with Ducati, second in practice, and sure with the potential to fight for the victory in the race, that, by the way, was won by Loris at the time. So sure the bike was good. And unfortunately had this little problem that doesn't allow him to finish the race. So Sete start again thinking bad luck and stuff like that. And then, of course, it's easy to speak when you're outside, when you're on the bike everything must be perfect, and if they start thinking that something is wrong, it doesn't work, simply. So has been really a pity to have this problem in the first race with Sete. But sure he has a good potential. He did the pole in Mugello and he did several good performances, without any good result, but sure, at the time nobody had doubt that the bike was good, and the rider as well.


Q But MotoGP bikes have changed a great deal since Sete last rode.


A The bike has changed, but Sete had the chance to ride the GP7 at the end of 2006 in Motegi. So he already went on the GP 800, and it was impressive, because he was faster than with the 1000. So he liked that bike, and for sure the GP7 [inaudible] with Sete in 2006.


Q With Melandri struggling and Gibernau now testing the bike, it doesn't take a whole lot for the rumor mills to suggest that Sete may replace Marco. Is that possible?


A Every time we do something, looks like there is something behind it. Like the test of Canepa in Barcelona. We are very happy with Niccolò. Niccolò is doing a very good job. Also in Barcelona he was pretty fast, because he was out only a few laps on Monday evening, and had four exits Tuesday afternoon. At the last he was able to be :43.6, which is a reasonably good lap time. So everybody now start asking, "So, will Niccolò replace Marco?" Is not the plan. We have Marco on board. We know the potential of Marco. We need to help him to find the feeling with the bike. Because no doubt about his talent.


Q On a personal level, it's got to be difficult for you, because you've known Melandri for, what, ten years? You've known him since he was a kid. He's a friend of yours.


A Yeah, of course. He's a special rider for me, Marco. I'm so sorry to see him in such a difficult situation. It looks like he has lost a little bit the feeling. He has no feeling with the bike. So of course - the gap you see Tuesday in Barcelona, is not only a technical gap. Is a question of motivation. If you feel the bike is not correct for you, it is difficult. That's why we believe that to have other riders that can perform well on the bike, can help Marco to understand that it is not the bike that is only for Casey. If you look at this situation, if you look at the test with Niccolò and Sete on the right perspective, is something that can help Marco to take away from his mind that this bike is only for Casey.


Q Can we talk about the Nicky Hayden to Ducati rumors?


A With Nicky, if you want, we can talk. We like Nicky. At the moment for 2009, we have a contract with Marco, so we cannot speak with anybody at the moment.


Q So none of it is true?


A No. If you say that Nicky could be potentially interesting for Ducati, that is correct. But at the moment, there's nothing more. Because we have a rider on board. We have two years with him, and the first goal is to try to have Marco happy with the bike.
ENDS

I agree, Angela, COR!!!! BLIMEY!!!!

Thanks Staind and Jossik... really great reads... and seriously, The Hoff hasn't shared a wee fraction of this with Marco?

Wow, it seems to simple in so many ways... but obviously just a question of how adaptable a rider really is. Marco is great and talented... in an environment he's familiar with... take him out of it... he's lost.

ALl this also completely addresses the lacklustre nature of superbike dudes when theyc ome over to GP. Everything in GP is geared for traditional, euro roadracing... soit's like, adapt or sod off! Or just suck. Also explains The Hickster's lack of consistent success... WC aside. (Gotta admit, he's never been brilliant.)

And see? This is where KC really needs to be razzed in a race... out the front with no one around him... he doesn't have to split his concentration in how to ride such a powerful bike well. No duelling, no battles means he just focuses on riding his bike fast... and it is a pity... I think he needs to beat other riders on duelling, jousting terms if he ever wants to throw off the stigma of "got the fastest bike".

Sure, it's an achievement to know how to ride such a bike... sure... (gets diminished though by it just being a case of his biking history... just what he learnt...) but if he's not getting bullied...

We all love Rossi's adaptability and flexibility... caw... wouldn't mind knowing how he'd adapt to the ducati... if at all. (VR does do some dirtbiking... who knows what his skill levels are?)

I swear, lets' start a petition... KC and Rossi have to swap bikes... it would be so interesting to watch. (And I don't put money on who would win... have no clue... but gawd, it WOULD be interesting.)

Funniest thing though, the second article with Livio is a few weeks old... tunes have def changed since then! SO much for Marco getting the full run of his contract!

It's a load off my mind solving this whole ducati thing... let me tell you!

LancsLB wrote this in the KC thread... but I guess it suits being here as well... just some follow up and eyewitness accounts...


Allegedly, Stoner had the '07 engine and new-for-2008 electronics - at least, according to the commentators after the race...

Listening to the bike at Coppice, the electronics were very noticeable at the (dry) Friday free practice. On Saturday (when it was wet) they were working overtime - cutting in to the extent that someone nearby remarked "It's not fair, is it? It's the bloody computer riding the bike, not Stoner!". Another thought there was something wrong with the bike as it sounded so different to all the others! All the other riders' bikes were either spinning up - or the guys were getting thrown out of the seat as their bikes found grip in unpredictable places. By Sunday, Stoner's Ducati looked - and sounded - as tame as a kitten.

Many thanks to Ferrari for achieving such a great electronic leap forward for Stoner - and congratulations to Ducati for making such a great leap backwards by running the '07 engine: clearly, a winning combination lets hope it doesn't end with them retaining the world championship title! Stoner couldn't moan about the bike so winged about the crowd instead - some members of the crowd did go over the top as I have already mentioned and were out of order but the majority of people at the podium were sporting and clapped when he was awarded his trophy but he seems to have ignored this point.

I hope its a different story at Assen and Germany if not we may end up with a replay of last years boring races

I (Catty) asked him some questions about it... and he answered:

have they discarded the GP8 and gone back to the GP7? Is that what has made the difference and created Marlboro Ducati's improvement? They didn't fix what was wrong, they just threw out?

Its just what the commentators said during the race - they are not always right so would be interesting to find out more about it. It was more interesting being very close to the track during qualifying and listening and watching Stoners bike compared to the others in the wet - you could see exactly why he was faster - now was that his amazingly superior racing skills or was it the electronics - errrm let me think about it!!!!!

And now I say:

So what was the sound difference? See, I'm still in the dark exactly what the TC issue is. KC's bike... most advanced electronics... but hard to ride. So am curious about what your eyewitness account means exactly...how would the TC have changed the wet racing conditions so much?

Cheers!

Does the fact that most riders can`t handle the Ducati mean that KC won`t be able to handle other bikes like Honda or Suzuki for example. If the Desmosedici is so specific and KC has adapted his style to it, then he probably won`t get on very well with a different machine.
It would be great if Vale and KC switch places for a day, on unofficial test, unknown track, just to see, what will happen.....
or at least see KC riding another bike
Unlikely

Of course Casey had ride other bikes than the Dukes before and we know the result. He is very special in his own way, so does Vale in his way too.

I think it is a dead interesting question... that KC is conquering all in motogp... but in a completely different way. That's the thing... if he had to ride a yamaha, which wouldn't take kindly to getting it's rear brake cranked throughout the race... I assume, anyway... would he get faster times than other yam riders?

The Ducati's development and the ensuing situ of KC's adaptation to the bike, how to ride it and win with it, it's really opened up a whole new potential for motogp racing.

I think they've been trying to gear motogp to suit the euros coming through the 125s, etc, and shut out the superbike guys. But with the evolution of KC's riding style, which means a bike can have more grunt, less balance... will it actually open the door for the superbike dudes and shut it on the roadracing euros?

Will Dorna go, "Oh shit, what have we done?" and change the class again to minimise the ducati's success and the riding style required to win on it?


Kevin Magee said something interesting... it's probably already been written about but i've been a bit busy and havn't had much time to read my google alerts on the racing... but that what has improved the ducati is the electronics. SImple as that.

Where I find that interesting is that once again it's about TC... the improved electronics gives smoother power delivery, tones down the bite of acceleration into and out of corners, so he can brake later and keep his corner speed up...

This apparently uses more fuel, so again, the onboard computer won't let the bike run out of fuel... KC changes the mapping of the race with buttons on his handlebars if he's using too much fuel.

They also changed the front end suspension and geometry.

Italian journalists were apparently stirring things up and put it KC whether Sete's tests with the duc made it quicker? KC apparently just laughed.
But hey... there's possibly some truth in it!