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If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. | | BANNED | | Posts: 4,986 Join Date: 17.01.2007 Location: Cambridgeshire | | | 
18.04.2008, 00:10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tommm If he wins the championship then yes, if he finishes behind someone on Michelin, no. | Quote:
Originally Posted by cb_46 I agree.And if turns out that Lorenzo wins the title it will go down in history as a huge mistake. | So have we already decided that the championship will come down to just tyres again? I really don't see that being the case.
As for the picture so far we are only 3 races in.
Qatar - a complete unknown and anyone could have won there.
Jerez - known to be a difficult track for Bridgestone and good for Michelin...but Vale was 2nd.
Estoril - the worst track for Bridgestones...but Vale was 3rd.
I think we need to see a few more races on more even territory before we can decide if the championship is going to come down to tyres again or if there will be an element of bike performance and rider skill in there somewhere.
As for Vale's decision being the wrong one...he made that decision after a lot of thought and based on a lot of bad past experience. The change was always a risk and it was known it would take a while to adjust - not bad results so far, all things considered.
Shall we look at it from the other point of view? If Vale was still on Michelins and 2 out of 3 races had been won on Bridgestones. Can you imagine what would be said then? He would be a laughing stock. He would have been ridiculed for such blind loyalty, for just sitting back and hoping for change.
At least this way he can say in all honesty that he gave Michelin every chance but after 2 years he had to act. It may not be the best decision of his career but I doubt if he will lose the championship solely because of this one factor. |  Today
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18.04.2008, 02:16
Just tires again?The element of bike performance and some rider skill were a huge part of the title last year. |  | DIVA | | Posts: 2,209 Join Date: 01.07.2007 Location: Sydney, Australia | | | 
18.04.2008, 06:30
Snore, snore, we're back to whether it was King KC or his package that won the title, are we?
I think it was about numbers... bridgestone performed better on a majority of tracks, and despite having time to look into their tyre situ, michelin still weren't getting anywhere... and don't forget, tyres were an issue in 2006, too, for Rossi.
Tyre rule came into play, michelin caught out.
KC's dominance last year... yes, some of it was the bike, not just the tyres (hehe), but Valentino couldn't even stay in the points race with him, even if it was to be a second overall, because he just couldn't compete with chewed michelins. He wanted bridgestones to level the playing field a bit with the dominant rider of 2007.
Now this is where KC does fall short... he doesn't have the skill level of Rossi to fight with a bad package. WHich means that with the same tyres, at least there isn't that outright disadvantage on a majority of tracks. At least being close to KC in a race can exert some pressure on him... last year, his early leads removed any element of racing pressure... as in, having to duel.
This is def where I think they brought Estoril forward just to create this conundrum for viewers... increase interest and speculation... everyone's crying out about michelin tyres now... but they haven't been truly tested yet. Someone mentioned Brno... those months last year were the most depressing I've ever watched of motogp... race after race with Rossi nowhere.., crapola tyres... and we all have eyes... we can see what shite tyres in a race looks like, as opposed to mechanical problems...
That his move has created the need for a learning curve... yeah, it's a total bore... but long term, I def think it will be proven to be the right decision.
THe only real downside I think is that Jorge coming into the comp, he's started on a the now highly, Rossi developed Yamaha... no powerless paddock scooter for him to start his motogp career off with. He's walked into a garage with a bike that rides beautifully... no ducati probs that Marco or Loris have faced (and Yes, this is where KC does appear to be King, his mastering of the ducati), no shite bike like ANdrea is faced with, that just to hang onto fourth means you're gonna crash out because you're bike isn't up to it...
Therefore, Jorge is getting an immediate measure of success. That he happens to be on michelins... and who says that will stay that way? (Much easier for Yam to have both riders on the same tyre... and if Jorge watches the rest of the year unfold and sees VR streak off on bridgestones, he'll be spitting his chuppa chup out something fierce).
SO michelins success thus far is a bit of an illusion.
Secondly, that the bikes have gone some way to making up some of the power/speed ground of the ducati... that's going to even it up in a way it wasn't even last year. Catalunya will be interesting, as it was KC's dominant power that made such a huge impact on the result of that race (and yes, yes, he rode well...) tyres meant didly squat...
So there are other issues at play other than michelin versus bridgestone.
Which is all good, if you ask me.
I'm glad he switched because michelin sucked sucked sucked. They had their chances...
Also, Dani wanted to switch, too... that says something. They REALLY must have sucked. It's taken one and a half racing seasons, but finally, Rossi has broken Stoner... and smashed him like a guitar! Valentino Rossi: The smartest, cleverest, bestest, hottest, sexiest, sweetest, finest f**ker on the planet today.
2007... it's still gonna get it's ass kicked! 2007... it's HISTORY! Forza The Marco Simoncelli Hair Appreciation Team. World Champions! |  | Senior Sergeant First Class | | Posts: 445 Join Date: 20.12.2007 Location: malaysia Age: 28 | | | 
18.04.2008, 15:57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catty Snore, snore, we're back to whether it was King KC or his package that won the title, are we?
I think it was about numbers... bridgestone performed better on a majority of tracks, and despite having time to look into their tyre situ, michelin still weren't getting anywhere... and don't forget, tyres were an issue in 2006, too, for Rossi.
Tyre rule came into play, michelin caught out.
KC's dominance last year... yes, some of it was the bike, not just the tyres (hehe), but Valentino couldn't even stay in the points race with him, even if it was to be a second overall, because he just couldn't compete with chewed michelins. He wanted bridgestones to level the playing field a bit with the dominant rider of 2007.
Now this is where KC does fall short... he doesn't have the skill level of Rossi to fight with a bad package. WHich means that with the same tyres, at least there isn't that outright disadvantage on a majority of tracks. At least being close to KC in a race can exert some pressure on him... last year, his early leads removed any element of racing pressure... as in, having to duel.
This is def where I think they brought Estoril forward just to create this conundrum for viewers... increase interest and speculation... everyone's crying out about michelin tyres now... but they haven't been truly tested yet. Someone mentioned Brno... those months last year were the most depressing I've ever watched of motogp... race after race with Rossi nowhere.., crapola tyres... and we all have eyes... we can see what shite tyres in a race looks like, as opposed to mechanical problems...
That his move has created the need for a learning curve... yeah, it's a total bore... but long term, I def think it will be proven to be the right decision.
THe only real downside I think is that Jorge coming into the comp, he's started on a the now highly, Rossi developed Yamaha... no powerless paddock scooter for him to start his motogp career off with. He's walked into a garage with a bike that rides beautifully... no ducati probs that Marco or Loris have faced (and Yes, this is where KC does appear to be King, his mastering of the ducati), no shite bike like ANdrea is faced with, that just to hang onto fourth means you're gonna crash out because you're bike isn't up to it...
Therefore, Jorge is getting an immediate measure of success. That he happens to be on michelins... and who says that will stay that way? (Much easier for Yam to have both riders on the same tyre... and if Jorge watches the rest of the year unfold and sees VR streak off on bridgestones, he'll be spitting his chuppa chup out something fierce).
SO michelins success thus far is a bit of an illusion.
Secondly, that the bikes have gone some way to making up some of the power/speed ground of the ducati... that's going to even it up in a way it wasn't even last year. Catalunya will be interesting, as it was KC's dominant power that made such a huge impact on the result of that race (and yes, yes, he rode well...) tyres meant didly squat...
So there are other issues at play other than michelin versus bridgestone.
Which is all good, if you ask me.
I'm glad he switched because michelin sucked sucked sucked. They had their chances...
Also, Dani wanted to switch, too... that says something. They REALLY must have sucked. |    100% agree with you. 2 years of disappoinment? NO MORE...... |  | Sergeant First Class | | Posts: 397 Join Date: 07.04.2008 Location: Australia Age: 21 | | | 
18.04.2008, 16:12
Its only been 3 races and Vale had done better than any other Bridgstone rider. The 1st race was a hard race. Especially under lights anyone could of won that race. The 2nd race Vale got 2nd, ok he didnt win but he got 2nd now at Estoril he got 3rd which was a michelin track! We havent had 1 Bridgestone track yet. I agree that tyres are becoming a joke as i have mentioned this before but Vale had to make a point last year. The michelin tyres ended up costing vale races and points. So what else did he have to lose to switch? its not like Michelin are any better then the bridgestones. A chance he couldnty afford to take. He needed to put his foot down they had time to deliver during the year and didnt. Michelin couldnt come up with the goods and Vale didnt have time to sit and wait. If he stayed and it ended up being the same as 07 then he wouldnt have achieved anything. Rossi likes to be pushed and he did it when he switched to Yamaha and he will now do the same on Bridgestones. When he does win the title back it will go down in hisotry books. We have 15 Races to go Vale has picked up valuable points and alot more of these tracks this year are Bridgestone tracks anyway, so have faith. I believe its going to be the toughest year yet. Its going to be these top 4 fighting it out. Halfway through we will get a better look at what its all about. Stoner wont have it as easy as last year. Lorenzo is good but can he really go another 15 doing this? I mean he won 250 last year but its not like he won every race. Hes young and needs experience and Pedrosa could be the biggest threat but hes on michellins so time will tell. He a great rider but isnt so good under pressure just like Sete was. I believe Vale made the right choice and hes 3rd so far with only 3 races in and 15 to go i have a good feeling about this year.
Go Vale VALE THIS IS YOUR YEAR 2008!!! | | BANNED | | Posts: 4,986 Join Date: 17.01.2007 Location: Cambridgeshire | | | 
18.04.2008, 16:55
Quote:
Originally Posted by cb_46 Just tires again?The element of bike performance and some rider skill were a huge part of the title last year. | And if Vale had been on Bridgestones he would have been in a much much stronger position than he was.
If Stoner had been on Michelins he would have been in a much much weaker position. I wonder how many races he would have finished, let alone won.
Tyres made a HUGE difference last year. |  | Master Sergeant | | Posts: 573 Join Date: 08.11.2007 Location: Ina | | | 
18.04.2008, 19:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catty Now this is where KC does fall short... he doesn't have the skill level of Rossi to fight with a bad package. | I'm glad somebody said that after all....thank you so much catty   Valentino Rossi's back in business,,, |  | Top Captain | | Posts: 4,563 Join Date: 17.01.2007 Location: Sao Paulo - Brazil Age: 22 | | | 
19.04.2008, 16:36
Quote:
Originally Posted by trossik46 Rossi reckons Lorenzo's Michelin tyres were better suited for Estoril than his Bridgestones, but the Italian still believes he can turn his fortunes around.
"I hope so, because the bike is quick: Lorenzo didn't win by chance," Rossi told Gazzetta dello Sport. "This time around we had to defend ourselves and we did it well. We'll now wait for the moment to attack. Shanghai is a very different track, we can do well. "With the way the Bridgestones are, this type of surface is not great. The tyres were sliding a bit too much in the race. In fact, it was me winning here last year with the Michelins. "Michelin should go better at Mugello, but the situation is constantly evolving. In the test we'll have more things to try out and let's hope we can further improve."
Rossi decided to switch to Bridgestone tyres for this season after being unhappy with the performance of Michelin last year.
The seven-time champion admitted he has been surprised by the French manufacturer's improvement. "To be honest, the real change is the step forward Michelin has done in such a short time. I didn't expect it, and it gives me a lot of doubts regarding the treatment we received last year. "Maybe they took a one-year vacation. But I don't regret having decided to switch. The math is done at the end." |    That's it!
It's better regret for a thing you've done than for one you haven't!
If Vale haven't made the switch and didn't win again I think he'd keep this doubt in mind forever!  Gi |  | Junior Private First Class | | Posts: 27 Join Date: 15.10.2007 Age: 21 | | | 
19.04.2008, 16:56
i agree with most of you guys!!!he did make the right decision he needed a new motive!!he couldn't just sit back.i mean what was that with his tires last year?they didn't even care to help him...Michelin has always been a very arrogant company..the only thing i wouldn't want is to see him lose in Mugello!!he has never lost there it would be such a pitty..but i am sure that he will have adapted even better by then so he has a good possibility!!Estoril wasn't the track which would clarify the situation with tires!!!in China things will be more balanced!there we can see what's going on.and this big improvement for Michelin shows they did it because Vale left!!at least Bridgestone is trying hard to help him and have him as their number 1 priority..afterall he is the star...and did he really say that "the math is done at the end"?love it.. |  | Senior Sergeant | | Posts: 152 Join Date: 25.03.2007 Location: Dublin Age: 25 | | | 
20.04.2008, 00:26
I wont be worried until after china.
Last year Michelin won 6 races. 4 for Vale & 2 Pedrosa.
Jerez, Mugello, Estoril, Assen, Sachsenring, Valencia.
2 of these are gone already and Casey won in Qatar exactly to plan, So if Michelin have really improved we will see it in china,
And with Vale's progress so far I think He has a chance to challenge for the championship.
Chappie46 | |
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